Wednesday on CNN’s “Cuomo Prime Time,” Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) went head-to-head with Chris Cuomo on topics including COVID-19, allegations of racism aimed at Donald Trump, economic issues and the Trump’s Supreme Court appointment during a nearly 20-minute-long segment.
During their sometimes-contentious dialogue, Cruz questioned Cuomo about its editorial direction in the Trump era.
Transcript as follows:
CUOMO: One of the tough questions we’re struggling with, is why do so many in this President’s Party stand by him when he says things they would condemn in anyone else that they would never say themselves, even as he tries to undermine the legitimacy of our election.
Why not they all say, “Mr. President, denounce the Proud Boys, and do it now?” Let’s ask a man with a reputation for great smarts and at one time great truth about Trump.
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TEXT: ONE ON ONE.
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CUOMO: Republican Senator, Ted Cruz, Texas, out with a new book, “One Vote Away: How a Single Supreme Court Seat Can Change History.”
Senator Cruz, Welcome. I finally got a way for you to talk to me instead of tweeting about me, give you a chance to sell your book, welcome.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Well, Chris, good evening, good to be with you.
CUOMO: The book, the central thought, one vote, one seat, one judge can make a big difference. So can one voice speaking truth to power, especially when it resonates like your own. Will you be that voice? Will you say playing nice with the Proud Boys is wrong?
CRUZ: Well listen, I’ve condemned the Proud Boys long ago. I think White supremacists, Klansmen, Nazis, are ignorant bigoted morons.
I also think that the American people care about the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They care about the Supreme Court. It was a big reason the President was elected. It was a big reason we have a Republican majority.
And I think this vacancy on the court, it’s the reason I wrote this book that was released just this week, because it focuses on the rights that are precious to so many of us, free speech, religious liberty, the Second Amendment.
CUOMO: Right.
CRUZ: And how all of them really hang in the balance of the court, and I think that issue matters enormously, and for me, it’s the most compelling issue.
CUOMO: Absolutely. Now, I will exercise my right, and say, was the President wrong to go soft on the Proud Boys in the debate last night?
CRUZ: Look, I wish he had been much clearer in his denunciation. I was glad today that he walked that back. And he–
CUOMO: No, he didn’t.
CRUZ: I’m glad that he sought to walk it back. I’m glad his campaign sought to walk it back. But let me be clear also, the press is completely hypocritical on this issue.
CUOMO: Really?
CRUZ: The press is partisan in this regard. So, 10 years ago, 2010, Joe Biden gave a eulogy for Robert Byrd, who was a Grand Cyclops–
CUOMO: Right.
CRUZ: –of the KKK.
CUOMO: Yes.
CRUZ: That’s 10 years ago.
CUOMO: You’re really going to go with that?
CRUZ: Oh, yes. You better believe it.
CUOMO: I know you’re a master debater. And Professor Dershowitz tells me you were the star– CRUZ: That–
CUOMO: –smartest student he ever had at Harvard Law. You’re going to go with that weak-ass argument here? Byrd, who had a complete enlightenment about how hate was wrong, who changed his life, who spoke about it–
CRUZ: Chris, Chris, have you ever–
CUOMO: –who changed his ways?
CRUZ: –eulogized a Klansman?
CUOMO: You’re going to–
CRUZ: I haven’t.
CUOMO: He was a–
CRUZ: Or I’ll give you another example.
CUOMO: Listen, but no, no, no, hold on. That’s your example.
CRUZ: How about right – hold on.
CUOMO: That’s your example. You’re going to use that–
CRUZ: No, I’ll give you another one.
CUOMO: –you’re going to – well but hold on.
CRUZ: I can give you a lot of examples.
CUOMO: But hold on, because I don’t want you to run away from the premise, Senator. I’m not you, but I’m not a fool either.
He did it in Charlottesville. He did it with David Duke. The old Ted Cruz, who he called Lyin’ Ted, when he wasn’t insulting your wife and your father, tweeted, “Hey, you’re better than this, Mr. President.”
What happened to that Ted? I don’t know if he changed or did just you changed, for some reason, Senator?
CRUZ: Chris, I’m glad you take tips on insults from other folks.
CUOMO: Really? Am I insulting you, Sir?
CRUZ: Oh, yes.
CUOMO: How so?
CRUZ: Oh, yes, you are.
CUOMO: How so?
CRUZ: And you’re enjoying it. That’s fine. CUOMO: I’m not enjoying it at all.
CRUZ: Chris?
CUOMO: I’m not enjoying anything about this.
CRUZ: Chris, there was a time–
CUOMO: Except having an opportunity for you to say the right thing at the right time.
CRUZ: Chris, there was a time when CNN actually cared about being journalistic and talking about facts. Donald Trump broke you guys. I mean you’re just–
CUOMO: Really?
CRUZ: –your entire show, your entire network now is just how much you hate Trump.
CUOMO: Really?
CRUZ: And you know what? I think a lot of people like are interested in – you said in your opening, it was very interesting, you said the President didn’t say anything positive about the country.
Well I thought the most important moment in the debate, last night, was when the President made very clear that Joe Biden’s policy agenda of shutting down the country, shutting down small businesses, and shutting down schools, and our priority needs to be opening up the economy, bringing jobs back, getting kids back in school. And that’s a very different policy agenda.
We have had an enormous economic impact from this pandemic. We need to restart the economy. And I think the President and Joe Biden have very different visions. Joe Biden’s policies, I think, don’t work and hurt a whole lot of people.
And when I’m back in Texas, people in Texas don’t understand why the press is just like the only thing you talk about is how much you hate the President.
CUOMO: Ted? Ted?
CRUZ: I get that the President’s not your friend, fine.
CUOMO: Senator, when you were in the campaign, do you want me to read through some of the things you said about Donald Trump? You want to talk about somebody who had a chance to talk about policy, but just stuck with the person? Nobody did it more than you did. That’s why he gave you the nickname he did and beat you down with it.
The idea that you’re going to put that on the media, my brother, you were the guy who went on Twitter, talking about my naked ass, but you won’t tell him, when he’s being an ass. So, why would you put it on me?
CRUZ: Chris, fine, you hate the President. I get it.
CUOMO: I do not hate the President.
CRUZ: You know what? We started this year–
CUOMO: You are too smart to say something that stupid.
CRUZ: Chris? Chris? Please, please, please.
CUOMO: I respect him as president. I want better for this country. And frankly, I want you to speak to that as well.
CRUZ: Yes.
CUOMO: You can’t say that we have a police difference over–
CRUZ: All right, Chris, we started this–
CUOMO: –closing down the country.
CRUZ: Chris, but please don’t interrupt every sentence. You’re behaving–
CUOMO: The President had to do it.
CRUZ: I get that you want to interrupt every sentence. But you’re behaving like you were one of the debaters last night. We can have a respectful conversation, and speak to each other civilly, or you could yell at me.
CUOMO: Senator, how many times have I invited you–
CRUZ: Yes?
CUOMO: –on the show?
CRUZ: Well, I remember one time you tweeted out “Cruz is dodging my show.”
CUOMO: 20 times.
CRUZ: Literally while I was on Fox. I was on Fox & Friends.
CUOMO: Is that – yes.
CRUZ: You had invited me.
CUOMO: Right.
CRUZ: You attacked me. And, by the way, I did a 15-minute interview with CNN–
CUOMO: I didn’t attack you.
CRUZ: –that day that CNN didn’t air.
CUOMO: I asked you to come on the show.
CRUZ: Chris?
CUOMO: And you said, “I just did one with CNN.”
CRUZ: Chris?
CUOMO: Every show is different.
CRUZ: Chris, you literally put me on the screen, and said, “Ted is afraid to come on.” And you invited me, while I was on Fox I mean it was – look.
CUOMO: 20 times I’ve invited you.
CRUZ: Let’s actually talk about substance.
CUOMO: 20 times.
CRUZ: I think you’re less – Chris?
CUOMO: You’re here right now–
CRUZ: I’m here right now.
CUOMO: Because I want to give you a chance to speak.
CRUZ: Chris, I’m here right now, so let’s actually talk about substance.
CUOMO: Good. Why do I care?
CRUZ: And let’s – let’s talk about–
CUOMO: Because last night, you say the most important thing was when he talked about the timing of who shut down the economy and when, which was always his–
CRUZ: No, not the timing.
CUOMO: –which was his choice.
CRUZ: What the solution is right now? 51 million Americans have lost their jobs.
CUOMO: Right.
CRUZ: They want to go back to work.
CUOMO: Right.
CRUZ: Small businesses want to open up.
CUOMO: Yes. CRUZ: Restaurants want to open up.
CUOMO: They should.
CRUZ: Movie theaters want to open up.
CUOMO: They should.
CRUZ: People want to be able to provide for their family.
CUOMO: They should.
CRUZ: Moms want their kids to go back to school.
CUOMO: Yes. Dads too.
CRUZ: And Joe Biden and the Democrats are responsible–
CUOMO: Dads too, you know? Dads care about their kids in school.
CRUZ: –for the shutdown.
CUOMO: Not just moms. Dads care too. And you know why it can’t happen?
CRUZ: Absolutely.
CUOMO: And you know why it was wrong for him to tell your Governor he was doing the right thing when he wasn’t, and he had to learn the hard way, same in Georgia, same in Florida? Testing, Ted. Testing. Testing, Ted.
CRUZ: Look, I am a huge proponent of testing.
CUOMO: The federal government has not been.
CRUZ: But let’s be here very clear.
CUOMO: And the President has slow-walked it, Sir.
CRUZ: I get–
CUOMO: Go ahead.
CRUZ: Chris, I get that your show wants to attack Texas, and Florida and Georgia, because they have Republican governors. We have also had much, much lower death rates than many other parts of the country. And it’s political, the attacks you’re making.
I think what we should be focused on, yes, testing, I’m a big proponent of testing. We need to do more testing.
CUOMO: Right, why don’t we?
CRUZ: But we need people to go back to work.
CUOMO: Why don’t we?
CRUZ: And – and–
CUOMO: Why don’t we do the testing so people can go back to work? Why don’t we do the testing, so kids can go to school?
CRUZ: Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve introduced actually legislation in the–
CUOMO: Have you?
CRUZ: –in the Senate to create a tax credit for employers to test their employees.
CUOMO: And what happened with it?
CRUZ: On a weekly basis.
CUOMO: Why haven’t you guys voted on it?
CRUZ: Well the Democrats are blocking voting on everything. They’ve filibustered legislation multiple times. I don’t think either Pelosi or Schumer actually want anything to pass because they’ve decided–
CUOMO: Did they read “Green Eggs and Ham?” By the way, have they tried that one yet or no? Saving that for you?
CRUZ: Chris?
CUOMO: Right?
CRUZ: Do you actually want to talk substance?
CUOMO: We are talking substance.
CRUZ: Or just insult?
CUOMO: I just like to call out the hypocrisy when it’s there, because the audience’s heads stay on straight that way because they’re not like–
CRUZ: Actually–
CUOMO: –“Wait, this is the “Green Eggs and Ham” guy. Is he talking about filibustering?” That’s what this show is, but I have to tell you, to cheapen it by saying “I want to take political shots about COVID.”
You know I had it. You know my wife had it. You know my kid had it. You know I network with people all over this country who are still suffering with it. You know I hate that kids aren’t in school or your staff should have told you, I talk about it every night. It couldn’t be less political for me. I don’t want people to get sick.
CRUZ: Except Chris, you attack Republican governors.
CUOMO: And if they tested more, Ted, they’d be better. CRUZ: And let me say something. There is something disgusting that Democrats are doing, that Joe Biden does, and that you do, which is–
CUOMO: What?
CRUZ: –you try to blame the people who have lost their lives on your political enemies, and that’s just not right.
CUOMO: No. No.
CRUZ: It’s not right at all.
CUOMO: I’m saying that when you hear–
CRUZ: And it’s particularly not right when–
CUOMO: –when you hear 200,000 people die, you don’t say “It is what it is.” I’m saying that–
CRUZ: But you know what, it’s particularly not right, Chris, when your brother–
CUOMO: –when – when you could have slowed it down, and you didn’t, you own it.
CRUZ: –has presided over the State with the highest death rate in the country.
CUOMO: New York’s record–
CRUZ: And I’m not – and I’m not–
CUOMO: –will stand for itself.
CRUZ: I know your brother didn’t want those people to lose their lives.
CUOMO: Oh, no! Oh, well that’s good.
CRUZ: But you shouldn’t play politics with–
CUOMO: So, you don’t think he intentionally killed them? That’s good.
CRUZ: No, of course not.
CUOMO: That’s very charitable of you, Ted.
CRUZ: Of course not.
CUOMO: Must be the Christian–
CRUZ: But I do think we can have a very reasonable policy discussion about the policy mistakes in New York and New Jersey of sending COVID- positive patients into nursing homes. I think that was a very serious policy mistake.
CUOMO: Because that didn’t happen all over the country, right?
CRUZ: No, it didn’t happen in Texas.
CUOMO: That wasn’t the most vulnerable population.
CRUZ: It’s one of the reasons why you’re – the death rate in New York is four times the death rate in Texas. It was–
CUOMO: Texas, the place where the Governor said that you didn’t need to test and you didn’t need masks, right?
CRUZ: OK.
CUOMO: And the President gave him a pat on the head?
CRUZ: That’s – that’s just a complete fabrication.
CUOMO: Yes, uh huh?
CRUZ: And we test a lot.
CUOMO: Well the–
CRUZ: I’ve been tested many times.
CUOMO: –the same Governor who said we didn’t need to shut down, go out, and then he had to turn around and do it differently because cases popped all over the place? That guy? Is that what you are talking about?
CRUZ: Chris, was it a mistake?
CUOMO: Or is that too political?
CRUZ: Was it a mistake when your brother implemented a policy that nursing homes had to accept COVID-positive patients and endanger the lives of tens of thousands of seniors in New York State?
CUOMO: My brother was the first one to say–
CRUZ: Was it a mistake?
CUOMO: –that there was a learning curve and that mistakes were made, and they changed things as soon as they could.
CRUZ: But then don’t be a hypocrite about it.
CUOMO: Now look, I could write that off as a political attack, right?
CRUZ: Then don’t claim – and I’m–
CUOMO: I could ask you – I could ask you questions about–
CRUZ: Look–
CUOMO: –only things that have to do with your family, but I’m not going to do that because the general propositions matter more.
CRUZ: Chris, Chris, I’m actually talking about public policy. That was a serious mistake.
CUOMO: And but – and testing is not public policy?
CRUZ: But I also recognize this is a pandemic.
CUOMO: Testing is not public policy?
CRUZ: Chris, please, I’m not interrupting you. Let me actually get a sentence without interrupting me?
CUOMO: I think you’ve gotten many, Sir. I’ll show you the tabulation of who spoke and how much in the segment later.
CRUZ: All right.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
CRUZ: Chris?
CUOMO: Yes, Sir.
WATCH (Part II):
CRUZ: This pandemic has been an enormous challenge across the country. I think Democrats and Republicans are trying in good faith to keep people safe.
But I think we can also have reasonable policy discussions about what works, A, to keep people safe, but B, to get people back to work. And I think people want to go back to work. This week, Disney announced 28,000 layoffs. Now, Disney is not a Right-wing company.
CUOMO: You see American Airlines?
CRUZ: They’re a very liberal company. But what’s interesting about Disney–
CUOMO: American Airlines is going to do tens of thousands (ph).
CRUZ: –what is interesting about Disney is they’re doing the layoffs in California, because California shut down the theme park. They’re not doing the layoffs in Florida because Florida opened Disney World. I mean, it’s a clear contrast where Democratic politicians–
CUOMO: So you’re saying that–
CRUZ: –in California have shut it down and they’ve cost people–
CUOMO: –so they’re laying off the people where–
CRUZ: –people their jobs.
CUOMO: –they’re out of business, and not the place that they’re in business, and you’re saying that’s political?
CRUZ: No. I’m saying the policies of Democrats–
CUOMO: Oh, so what do you say?
CRUZ: –to shut the economy down are bad policies that hurt people’s lives.
CUOMO: What do you do when people are getting sick, Ted?
CRUZ: And the layoffs are the direct result–
CUOMO: What do you do when people are getting sick, Senator, and you can’t test them?
CRUZ: Well you don’t send them to nursing homes.
CUOMO: And they don’t wear masks? And you tell them not to.
CRUZ: You don’t – you don’t send them into nursing homes.
CUOMO: Oh, so – so the nursing homes was the sum total of the entire problem in the country? That’s what it was?
CRUZ: Well it led to the New York having–
CUOMO: 7 million cases?
CRUZ: –33,000 deaths compared to Texas having 15,000 deaths. And Texas has 50 percent more population than New York does.
CUOMO: And what about all the cases that they had? And how many people got sick–
CRUZ: So, you should be – you should be–
CUOMO: –by the refusal to shut down businesses?
CRUZ: You know what? Our objective should be to preserve–
CUOMO: You say you want to open them up, but you won’t discuss how.
CRUZ: Our objective–
CUOMO: You say you introduced a bill, but you won’t talk about the President and his failure. The testing has to be done at the federal level, Ted. You know this.
CRUZ: Well–
CUOMO: You understand a little bit about state economics. You know the Governor can’t do it himself, right?
CRUZ: Well actually governors have taken the lead, and have had much greater success. Texas’ record on every level–
CUOMO: They’ve had to.
CRUZ: –is much, much better than New York and New Jersey and Massachusetts.
CUOMO: That’s not true. Look at New York’s numbers.
CRUZ: And Pennsylvania.
CUOMO: Look at the rate every day they’re testing. My brother puts it out every day.
CRUZ: 33,000 deaths versus 15,000 deaths.
CUOMO: They were the hub of where people were coming. You guys want to celebrate China? You let in 40,000 people, it had already moved to Europe.
CRUZ: So, Chris let me ask you, does it–
CUOMO: They let in tens of thousands people, they went to the hubs.
CRUZ: –does it trouble you? Does it trouble you–
CUOMO: That’s why we got so sick here.
CRUZ: –at all that New York and New Jersey had the highest death rates in the country?
CUOMO: Of course.
CRUZ: Does that – does that make you and pause and say, “Gosh!”
CUOMO: It all troubles me, Ted. And to watch guys like you stand by and–
CRUZ: Were – but – but Chris–
CUOMO: –stroke you beard like a wise man–
CRUZ: –does it make you think–
CUOMO: –instead of telling the President to get on it–
CRUZ: Chris?
CUOMO: –when you have power–
CRUZ: Chris, how about tell your brother to get on it?
CUOMO: –is a problem. My brother will stand for his own record.
CRUZ: And how about thinking about the public policy?
CUOMO: Why don’t you talk to the President the way you talk to my brother, Ted? You afraid of him? You think he’ll smack you down at home? CRUZ: Oh, yes, I’m terrified of the Cuomos!
CUOMO: Is that is what it is like he shelled you up in the primary?
CRUZ: You guys are really tough!
CUOMO: Not the Cuomos. I’m talking about the President. My brother’s not the President. I’m talking about the President. The one who called you a liar, the one who said your wife was ugly–
CRUZ: Let me–
CUOMO: –that guy.
CRUZ: Look, I–
CUOMO: The guy now, who you won’t say anything about.
CRUZ: I recognize that you like it – you actually wonder why you don’t have a lot of Republicans that want to come on your show, Chris?
CUOMO: I have more than any other show.
CRUZ: Where you have me and yell at me, and insult – insult me.
CUOMO: I’m not – I’m not yelling at you.
CRUZ: And that’s fine.
CUOMO: I’m raising my voice to match your own, because you want to play games, Ted.
CRUZ: You were yelling at me and insulting.
CUOMO: And people are dying.
CRUZ: And that’s OK. That’s OK, Chris. You’re perfectly fine to scream and yell because you know what?
CUOMO: Oh, but you don’t?
CRUZ: You’re doing it because you don’t want to discuss the substance.
CUOMO: I had you on to discuss these things.
CRUZ: Like you invited me on the show to actually talk about the Supreme Court and talk about the book, “One Vote Away.” And instead, you just want to repeat insults over and over and over again.
CUOMO: Oh, but you’re not?
CRUZ: But let’s actually talk about the Supreme Court for a minute.
CUOMO: You just bring up my brother for half the interview because you’re such a fair guy.
CRUZ: Well now you–
CUOMO: You’re playing so straight down the middle, right?
[21:30:00]
CRUZ: –you were just – you were just playing in a biased way, attacking Texas, Florida, and Georgia–
CUOMO: Because the President’s not at the top of the food chain?
CRUZ: –coincidentally happen be Republican states, when the death rates, they are markedly worse, and we should ask, when the death rates are markedly worse, in some states than others, we should ask a reasonable question–
CUOMO: Yes. Why didn’t the President help sooner?
CRUZ: –where the public policy mistakes, where the decisions–
CUOMO: That’s the question.
CRUZ: –that led to that.
CUOMO: Why didn’t the President help sooner?
CRUZ: And, by the way, let me ask–
CUOMO: Why didn’t he help the places that got hit hardest first–
CRUZ: All right, you want to talk about the President specifically, Chris?
CUOMO: –when they were all Democratic?
CRUZ: You want to talk about the President specifically? Was it the right decision or the wrong decision when the President halted air travel into and out of China?
CUOMO: Right decision. Should have done it sooner.
CRUZ: It was the right decision, even–
CUOMO: And should have not let 40,000 people repatriate. Next question?
CRUZ: OK. OK. So, I agree with you on that. I called for him to do it the day before he did it.
CUOMO: Next question?
CRUZ: But Joe Biden denounced it as racist and xenophobic.
CUOMO: No, he didn’t. No, he didn’t.
CRUZ: Yes, he did.
CUOMO: No, he didn’t.
CRUZ: And Nancy Pelosi that week–
CUOMO: I’ll be you – I’ll bet you dinner.
CRUZ: –brought up a vote–
CUOMO: I’ll bet you dinner Biden didn’t denounce it.
CRUZ: –in the House, where – for Democrats to stop the ban.
CUOMO: I’ll bet you dinner that Biden didn’t say that. You were right about Pelosi. And it was a bad move.
CRUZ: He most certainly did.
CUOMO: You’re wrong. You’re right about Pelosi.
CRUZ: He most certainly did it, and by the way–
CUOMO: And it was a bad move.
CRUZ: And by the way, Chris, your colleagues at CNN, this is sort of the talking point, I, with Jake Tapper, actually read the Biden tweet to him. I don’t have it in front of me right now. But he denounced it as racist and xenophobic.
The New York Times who, you just had Tom Friedman on, had multiple articles saying it was a mistake. It was terrible to hold air travel into and out of China.
CUOMO: Well you heard what I just said, right?
CRUZ: I can tell you, I chaired a hearing in the Senate, where the expert–
CUOMO: Did you hear what I just said?
CRUZ: So, you said – I agree with you now.
CUOMO: Oh, good.
CRUZ: But you know what?
CUOMO: Now? I’ve only said this.
CRUZ: The Democratic Party didn’t say it then.
CUOMO: I’m not part of the Party.
CRUZ: The Democratic Party denounced it then.
CUOMO: Let me ask you one other thing while I have you that I think is almost as important as what you say about when we’re shutting down and when we didn’t because that’s in the past. What the President said about the election, Senator, seriously, now, I’m happy to joust, but not when it’s existential, OK? That’s why I come at you about the pandemic, because for me, I don’t play politics with it. I’m a little insulted by that. But I’m making it–
CRUZ: You don’t play politics. You just only attack Republicans over it.
CUOMO: I’m making it–
CRUZ: But you’re not playing politics.
CUOMO: I have Republicans on all the time–
CRUZ: It just happens to be Red states
CUOMO: –who are willing to come back–
CRUZ: No, no, no, but the only states you attack–
CUOMO: –all the time.
CRUZ: –you attack Texas, Florida and Georgia.
CUOMO: No. I point out those states–
CRUZ: Are there – is there anything similar about those states?
CUOMO: Please, Senator? You sound silly. I talk about people and how they’re struck in those states all the time. I care about them, and I want them to be better. And I don’t want them to be sick, and go through what I did.
CRUZ: You want them to be Democrats.
CUOMO: So that’s why.
CRUZ: You want them to be Democrats.
CUOMO: I do it with Democrats too. I do it with them too.
CRUZ: No problem.
CUOMO: Anybody who’s not doing the right thing when it comes to–
CRUZ: Look, look, you–
CUOMO: I talk about the kids in class, as a national problem.
But let me ask you this. The President has been hinting very strongly that if the election doesn’t go his way, it will have to have been fraudulent. And you just heard Tom Friedman, and his concerns.
If your State and the other states certified their results, as they always do, and say “No, this is it. Our count’s legit. We’ll check as the law allows, but it’s legit,” and the President says, “No, not good enough for me. I don’t want a transfer of power,” what would you do?
CRUZ: So, that’s not going to happen. There’s going to be a peaceful transfer of power.
But let me say something. I wish that the two political sides actually had conversations where we listen to each other.
I have to admit it, it was surreal listening to you and Tom Friedman, talking about what you think Trump is going to do on the election, because from my perspective, I think it’s projection.
I think the one that is going to challenge the election in all likelihood is Joe Biden. Hillary Clinton told–
CUOMO: Biden said last night he’d accept the results.
CRUZ: But Hillary Clinton told Joe Biden “Under no circumstances should you concede defeat.” And not only that–
CUOMO: Who cares what she says?
CRUZ: –it’s interesting. Tom Friedman talked about Bush versus Gore. So, I was one of the lawyers who represented George W. Bush.
CUOMO: I remember it.
CRUZ: In Bush versus Gore. There’s a chapter, in my book, “One Vote Away” that talks about Bush versus Gore and elections. And by the way, it was Al Gore, who challenged the outcome of that election. It was Al Gore–
CUOMO: Yes.
CRUZ: –who filed litigation.
CUOMO: Yes.
CRUZ: And it took 36 days of chaos. It went to the Supreme Court twice. And ultimately, it was resolved.
CUOMO: Yes.
CRUZ: Bush – the ballots were counted four times. Bush won all four times. And, at the end of the process, there was a resolution.
CUOMO: Yes.
CRUZ: It’s one of the many reasons why nine justices on the Supreme Court matters, because we need a resolution. And what my book does, I’d just like to say a second about it, if I could.
CUOMO: I haven’t stopped you.
CRUZ: But – OK.
CUOMO: Keep talking, brother. CRUZ: Before I was in the Senate, I was a Supreme Court litigator. That was my profession, was arguing cases at the Supreme Court.
Each chapter in the book talks about a different constitutional right, whether free speech, religious liberty, the Second Amendment. And what I would say, look, I recognize a lot of your listeners are of a different political affiliation than I am.
CUOMO: Yes, but I invited you anyway.
CRUZ: And that’s we’re a big–
CUOMO: So, please finish your point.
CRUZ: –we’re a big country.
So, my point is, if folks at home want to actually understand why so many millions of people are deeply concerned about protecting free speech, and religious liberty, and how those rights, and the Second Amendment, how they hang in the balance, what the book does is it tells the inside story of what’s happening in the – with the justices, what’s happening with the courts, what’s happening with the landmark cases on those rights, many of which I helped litigate.
And I do think on Bush versus Gore, for example, we could easily find ourselves in November, and December, and January in the midst of nationwide litigation. It could be brought by Joe Biden or it could be brought by Republicans. Either side could bring litigation.
And I would encourage folks, if you want to understand the issues more, even if you don’t necessarily agree with me, I think the book is a helpful tool to understanding these issues, and what’s really going on–
CUOMO: Good.
CRUZ: –at the court. And I’ll tell you the–
CUOMO: And I hope you stand by what you said about the peaceful transfer of power. I hope if you concede–
CRUZ: And you know what? I hope–
CUOMO: –that there’s an obvious political play, I hope you speak up, Senator, because that’s why you–
CRUZ: So, and I hope Joe Biden does too. If Joe Biden loses, I hope that you stand by it as well.
CUOMO: He said he’ll accept the results. If he doesn’t, then he’s a liar, and he’s got to be called out as such, unless they can bring up a material issue on either side. Then obviously, you got to have the system be put to work. But that’s not what we’re talking about, at least not yet. Senator Ted Cruz, appreciate you finally taking the invitation. Good luck with the book. The book is “One Vote Away.”
Follow Jeff Poor on Twitter @jeff_poor
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