On Wednesday’s broadcast of The Glenn Beck Radio Program, host Glenn Beck and author Brad Thor discussed their fear that Donald Trump would cause irreparable harm to the United States, democracy, and capitalism.
Listen to audio of the segment above and read the transcript below (emphases added).
BECK: Brad Thor, the author of a new book “Foreign Agent” that is coming out in a couple of weeks. You can pre-order at BradThor.com.
Brad is a very good friend of mine and sometimes a little shy about his opinions.
PAT GRAY: Almost like a wallflower.
BECK: Almost. He keeps them to himself. We have to pry things out of him. Welcome to the program, Brad Thor. How are you?
THOR: I’m ready to be shy. Get off my back, Pat.
BECK: So Brad, how are things – how are things shaping up for you because we have a – and I don’t know if you feel this way, but we were wrong about this election from the get-go. We thought that anyone but Trump would win because there’s just no way he would be able to and so we have come to the place now where we think he’s going to win mainly because we’ve been so wrong about him.
But we’re still getting massive blowback because we won’t’ get into the boat because we all as an audience when we thought it was Jeb Bush – we all as an audience said, “We’re not going to do that. Don’t get into that boat. They’re going to come back to you and say you’re going to wreck the election. You’re going to get Hillary elected.”
We promised each other we will not do that. We won’t sell out our values and yet we’re getting hammered because we’re, quote “selling out our values” by not selling out our values.
THOR: And I agree. And I was on record well over a year and a half ago saying – probably even two years. The Blaze did an article about it where I said, “If Jeb Bush ends up being the nominee, I will never vote Republican again.
My opposition to Jeb Bush, though, was that it was going to be more elitist and status quo in DC and that we don’t do political dynasties in this country. I was not worried about Jeb Bush getting into office and then saying, “You know what? I can’t help America win with the restraints placed upon me by Congress and the Constitution.”
I wasn’t worried about an authoritarian in Jeb Bush. So that is a legit discussion. It is a legit argument to have against Jeb Bush. The discussion, the opposition to Trump is completely different.
GRAY: Yeah, I would give my left giblet for a political dynasty.
BECK: Hang on for just a second. I still wouldn’t vote for it.
BECK: When we’re looking at that, Brad, a lot of people will say he is not going – a lot of people in Washington believe this. A lot of people in the press believe it. Most Americans say, “He is not going to do that.” He is —
THOR: It’s ridiculous. How do they know? Trump is – listen, I —
BECK: Here’s how they say it, here’s how they say it. “Because he’s a businessman who always gets things done, so he knows he has to compromise.
THOR: BS, BS. Trump does not compromise. Trump has the ability to hire and fire people, to hire contractors, to fire contractors. People who work for Trump can work for him or stop working for him. If he gets into the White House, we have to deal with him.
And I’ll tell you, one of the best examples I have seen of who Trump really is – I have been mistakenly comparing him to a potential Mussolini. And about a week ago, Foreign Affairs did an amazing article about the Caudillos, the strong men of Latin America. And that is who Trump is. He is a Chavez. He is a Peron.
That is the type of guy he is and I guarantee you, Glenn, that during his presidency, during his reign if you will – he is going to petition the American people to allow a temporary suspension of the Constitution so he can help America get back on its feet again.
He is a danger to America and I got to ask you a question and this is serious and this could ring down incredible heat on me because I’m about to suggest something very bad. It is a hypothetical I am going to ask as a thriller writer.
With the feckless, spineless Congress we have, who will stand in the way of Donald Trump overstepping his constitutional authority as President? If Congress won’t remove him from office, what patriot will step up and do that if, if, he oversteps his mandate as president, his constitutional-granted authority, I should say, as president.
If he oversteps that, how do we get him out of office? And I don’t think there is a legal means available. I think it will be a terrible, terrible position the American people will be in to get Trump out of office because you won’t be able to do it through Congress.
BECK: I would agree with you on that and I don’t think you actually have the voices we’ve been talking about and we’ve been talking about this off-air for a while. I think the voices like ours go away. I don’t think we are allowed – especially if things, and I believe the economy is going to go to crap, even if Jesus was in office. It’s going to naturally reset. It has to.
THOR: Glenn, under the policies of Trump – again, Foreign Affairs – look up what a Caudillo is, C-A-U-D-I-L-L-O. Trump is promoting a protectionism, a nationalism in economics. It has destroyed Latin America. It has destroyed any hope of democracy down there. He will do the same thing here.
People say Hillary is worse? I hate Hillary Clinton’s guts. Hillary Clinton will not do the damage Trump will do. And people are going to come back and say to you and say to me, “You guys were right. We should have listened to you. And you know what? All of those cowards that are throwing in behind Trump because he’s the Republican nominee and they say “it’s too late to do anything.” Shame on you.
He has not been to the convention yet and guess what? If more of us stood up and we took a stand and said we are not going to vote for him. We’re going to make sure he doesn’t get elected, maybe that egomaniac Trump would want to opt out.
If he doesn’t think he can win the presidency because all of us were standing up against him, maybe he would beg off. Maybe he wouldn’t do it. But you know what? All of these go-along-to-get-along Republicans have fallen in behind him and I say shame on you and to hell with every one of you.
BECK: But really, stop being such a wallflower and tell us what you really — what are you gonna do, Brad, I mean, ’cause we had Austin Peterson on. He’s a libertarian I could vote for. Have you heard Austin Peterson?
THOR: I spoke with him this morning. I spoke with him this morning. I am spending the weekend with — I will not say who, because I promised I would not — but I am spending the weekend with probably one of the greatest conservative thinkers of my generation. And I am spending the weekend talking with him about what it is, because write in Ted Cruz, write in Mickey Mouse–
BECK: Please don’t — I asked you not to mention that you were gonna be spending the weekend with me, but — (LAUGHTER)
THOR: Cat’s out of the bag now.
BECK: Okay, so, you’re gonna be spending the weekend with somebody big, and what are you talking about?
THOR: Well, I wanna find how we — what is the way forward. Because simply saying “Never Trump” is not a road map forward for the rest of the people that agree with NeverTrump. So we have to actually put together a plan to put it in front of people and, you know, if we deny the 270 electoral college votes to Trump or Clinton and it forces it into Congress, whatever, but the fight is not over. And the other thing that we have to get our arms around is the idea of judicial supremacy — that somehow the Supreme court is entitled to be the ultimate decider and that they’re there for life and that a president, whether Republican or Democrat, can shape the court forever. I don’t know that that’s necessarily the way that it has to be. So this idea that we have to go with Trump because of what Hillary will do with the Supreme Court — I’m not sure that there isn’t a way around that. And that’s something else I want to explore.
BECK: Brad, I am — I’ve been talking for a long time about this, but I’m serious about it now. About getting the best minds that are conservative that are not selling out their principles, who are saying, “No, this is not who we are. I won’t do these things and I won’t play the game anymore.” And finding those people and bringing them together and talking about building our own Tides Foundation — talking about not a two-year plan or a four-year plan but a hundred-year plan, and really putting some teeth and a plan together with the like-minded people to move us forward. Right now, we’re thinking two years ahead, four years ahead. That’s not gonna change anything, and we’re always playing defense instead of offense. We need to go on the offensive over a long period of time. Would you be part of that?
THOR: I think it’s a brilliant idea. It’s something I would definitely want to be part of and it’s something this country needs. And this is the problem, Glenn — and you and I’ve talked about this again and again and again — is that good conservative people are raising their families. they’re going to work, they’re paying their bills, they’re helping to create jobs. They are not policy wonks in D.C. And, unfortunately, by the time they really pick up on the rest of us raising the alarm, sometimes it’s too late. We need to have a plan going forward and it needs to go beyond our lifetimes, right? Because you and I always say, this is not a country we own. We are merely stewards of this republic, and it is incumbent upon us to hand a freer, more successful, safer, more prosperous nation down to the next generation. That’s our duty as Americans, and I will tell you this: the hundred-year plan is so much more important than what happens over the next four to eight years, because I think Trump is an extinction-level event, potentially, for our Republic — for democracy. This is one of the greatest crises our nation has seen — since the Great Depression, since World War II — is a potential Donald Trump presidency. It is a disaster for liberty.
BECK: I think it’s an extinction — possible extinction-level event for capitalism, as well. Because —
THOR: Listen, I would not argue with that point at all based on what we see coming from Trump. Listen, Andrew Sullivan, who — I’m not a big fan, I don’t agree with a lot stuff Andrew Sullivan writes. He wrote a brilliant piece recently in New York magazine and he said democracies end when they are too democratic. And he looked at Plato’s Republic and some of the thoughts Plato had on democracy and how when there are no values — when anything is possible, when everything goes — that’s when a tyrant steps in and takes control of what Plato called an obedient mob. It is exactly what Trump has done. It is a brilliant piece of writing and I encourage everybody to read it. “Democracies end when they are too democratic” is the title.
BECK: I’ve never heard you like this, Brad.
THOR: I’m terrified.
BECK: I heard you ring the bell against Barack Obama and what he was doing but I’ve never heard you say an extinction-level event.
THOR: Listen, I believe it was somebody at National Review that used that exact term, and it resonated with me. I am terrified about liberty. Listen, Trump is a boorish, orange raccoon. He is an absolute jackass. He is. I said that on your show before. I despise stump just because he’s such a boorish jackass, but the problem is is that — dammit! Dammit, fellow Republicans! Damn you fellow conservatives who cannot see the potential for tyranny in this man. Shame on you all! And damn you all to Hell who refuse to acknowledge the potential for tyranny. I don’t care that things might be good under Trump. That’s not good enough to gamble America’s freedom away on. It is there for everyone with eyes to see that this man is a potential tyrant. He is a caudillo. He is a South American strong man waiting to come into power here in the United States. He will demonize anybody that stands in his way. Congress will not stop this man. We had some of our best and brightest in my lifetime on the G.O.P. side lined the primary, and he steamrolled all of them. And he didn’t do it with great ideas. He did it by being an ass — by insulting them, by making things up. How the hell do you debate somebody who pulls facts out of his butt? This guy talked about stuff that wasn’t even true. These poor Republicans brought knives to a tactical nuke fight. They could win against him, and you’re telling me Congress will stand up to tyranny from Donald Trump? It will never happen. He will demagogue members of the press, members of Congress, judges. He will steamroll them the same way dictators in South America do. It’s going to happen here. we cannot cede the battlefield to this man. There’s still a fight to be had in still a fight to be won. Let’s get back in this fight.
GRAY: So you’re saying you’re undecided on endorsing him?
BECK: So Brad Thor, you are always fun to have on. His new book Foreign Agent, pre-order it now at BradThor.com. I want you to do this. I want you to talk to your friend this weekend and see if he’ll verify this: the list of conservative judges that came out, that Donald Trump put out, did not come from him. It came from the G.O.P. establishment. They said, “Okay, let’s see — let’s work with you. These are the judges we’d like — the conservatives would like you to to put out.” He said, “fine.” He put the list out. The next day — that list didn’t come from him — the next day he was like, “you know, that’s just a — that’s not the real list. There’s many other names.” He backed down off of that experiment from the conservative G.O.P. within 24 hours. Ask and see if you can verify that, ’cause I know it’s true.
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